Mayan Calendar (2012) and Saturn in Scorpio 1

October 12, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Posted in Editorial, Predictions | 25 Comments
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I’ll probably have a number of posts to write about this, but I’d like to write a short one now. Saturn is in Virgo and Pluto is in Capricorn. Both are malefics, both are trine, and Pluto is in Saturn’s home. What does this mean? I think that the answer to that is unfolding currently.

“2012” seems to divide people into two camps: those who have heard about it and are terrified, and those who either haven’t heard of it or don’t care. I’m in a third: I think it is a curiosity, but I haven’t put much stock into it.

I’d like to point out a few interesting astrological issues, though. (1) Saturn will move into Scorpio, which is MUCH tougher than Virgo; and (2) Saturn and Pluto will be in mutual reception.

I could stop there; those two would be enough by themselves. But those born in the mid 1980s will be entering or about to enter their Saturn returns. A number of astrologers call this generation the “Chernobyl” or “Columbine” generation. The Challenger Space Shuttle disaster happened in 1986. Some have watched this generation cautiously, and I note that they begin their Saturn returns at that time.

All of this is far away, but I would offer that the current events will set the stage for those events, four years away. This election is profound, but the following one will be even more profound.

Scorpio rules (1) things underground; (2) poisons in general; and (3) especially liquids that are poisonous. Easily deduced from #1, #2, and #3, Scorpio rules crude oil generally, with Neptune & Pisces controlling the pipes. Saturn is cardinal earth, it tends to make things shrink, and it also tends to “dry up” things.

So, four years in advance, I offer this. The current “difficulties” are preparing us for what is ahead, four years from now. We are NOT having a “Great Depression,” yet, but if we do not make major changes to conserve and manage resources better, we might encounter such problems by 2012. The current “financial woes” are a wake up call.


  1. What do you think about Pluto mars-saturn conjunction( H2 all in Scorpio) of a person’s Natal chart.(Born 1984)

    Is this person violent? Or just secrative AND agressive about his/her resources? Such as obtaining money.

    PS. This person is in the Navy. Thank you.


    • Sorry for the slow reply. “Things” have been very, very weird.

      At UAC ’98 in Atlanta, GA, some of the chatter was about 1984 births and the Uranus/Pluto conjunction. No consensus emerged, but many thought this would signal a GENERATION characterized by events such as school shootings. Of course, a number of school shootings have happened since then. Is the generation violent?

      I hesitate to say this, but I think that no choice is left here. This generation of people were sent to Iraq whether they wanted to go or not. A decade long war similar in some ways to Viet Nam has characterized their generation. As to whether this will lead to other violence, or not, remains to be seen.

      But, as others have pointed out, this may be a generation of some of the greatest inventors to have lived. Expect advances from this group especially in areas of chemistry, materials science, pharmaceuticals, and geology. Some of the best researchers to have lived may yet come from this group. On the down side, some of these will accelerate the continued stripping of our personal privacy. Scorpio rules finances & taxes (“other people’s money” is a traditional definition), so the group that might nuke us might be the group that saves us. (Scorpio rules both assassins and saints.)

      With Mars in the mix, all of this is amplified. To a large degree, the key will be how the energy is channeled. For example, this energy could produce a superb athlete or soldier. In ordinary civilian life things become a bit trickier. This person could be the ultimate tax collector. (Is that good or bad?)

      Beyond that, I think you already know the answer based on what you have said. You have to decide with whom/what you are willing to live.


  2. That’s all about what a prophecy is – what may come to pass. I wonder how we’ll do?


    • Well, we really do not know. Non-astrologers (at least some of them) recognize that life is characterized by a series of turning points, “developmental stages.” Whether or not aspects “cause” the turning points is an open question, but we can all agree that turning points do come to pass. How we’ll do remains to be seen.


  3. Theres a fourth group – those who look forward to it and think it is going to be the dawn of a new era. Yeah! Im one of those. Peace and out.


    • The answer to this has been rewritten into an article: “Aquarian Age Pioneers.”


  4. how do u think it will affect scorpios?


    • Profoundly. This shift focuses on “things” Scorpio and Capricorn more than anything else.


  5. Thanks for taking the time to post this. Great Article on something I have been looking into.


    • Glad you liked it. I will continue to post something related on an intermittent basis. I may even shift the focus on the blog to (primarily) this topic (and sometimes lunations).


  6. Damn, this REALLY does not make me feel better about my Saturn return, as I am one of those with Saturn in Scorpio. Ah well, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens…


    • Yes, certain key groups will be highly affected by this. The three major Saturn return groups (especially 8 degrees) will feel it. So will the Saturn at 8 Cap groups. Might make an interesting article to explore that. Let me think about it.


    • Sounds like you are smart enough to know what a “Saturn Return” is. The groups experiencing this at this time will almost certainly contain certain individuals who will be important in the process of “passing the baton.” Will you be one of them?


  7. You could certainly see your expertise in the paintings you write. The sector hopes for even more passionate writers such as you who are not afraid to say how they believe. All the time follow your heart.


    • I am flattered. I am considering doing some more work on this blog this month. I hope to write a few more pieces over the course of 2012. Thank you, again, for the compliment.


    • Thank you. As I have noted elsewhere, I write anonymously here. I have chosen in the hopes that my writings will survive me, beyond the day when I return to that from whence I came. When the day comes, I do not want my thoughts to die with me. And, I agree: we need more of the same. Again, thank you!


  8. As a Scorpio with my Moon conjunct the IC (plus ascendent in Capricorn), Sun conjunct Neptune and the MC (7deg orb) and to that a close Mercury South node conjunction, I am beginning to feel very powerful undercurrents of energy. These feelings have been getting steadily more powerful since around 1991/2. What we are fundamentally experiencing is the transition from the “Anything goes” last vestiges of the Age of Pisces into the new Age of Aquarius (as you say in your article above).

    Whilst the pessimists predict an apocalypse I’m not at all convinced. Put very simply, Pisces represents a lack of structure, sensitivity and emotion. Aquarius is altogether more cerebral, finds emotion hard to demonstrate, likes collectives but is more structured. Any transition is going to be difficult but Pisces has been throwing it’s toys out of the pram as it’s influence diminishes.

    Whilst I am most certainly unsure about how the future is going to unfold, I am of the belief that a fundamental “Good” will eventually emerge. The transition is going to be very tough, we are going to have to re-adjust our values and the way we live.

    As a final thought, I often think how tragic it is that we did not listen to and observe the Native American Indian cultures instead of destroying them. We could have learned so much.


    • Without offering a deatiled reply, I will say that I generally agree with you. Specifically, I do not believe that an apocalypse is approaching, but something very powerful is. Actually, we can CHOOSE an apocalypse, but I hope we are wiser than that. Your point about Native American cultures is a good one. We will have to re-think our energy usage and “carbon footprint.” I suspect that in a few years far more of us will be working from home at least a few days a week rather than commuting. Among other things, we will see a resurrection of the home and recognizing the power and value of home and family. And, as we become more collective, our new lessons will remind us of the importance of honoring the sanctity of the individual within the collective.


    • I generally agree with you. However, do recall that (generally) Native American concepts of “property” only encompass personal property and not real property. Personalty had a tendency to be held communally. That fact can make some concepts (like privacy) a bit difficult to implement in practice. A movement away from a collective notion of real property that is UNstructured to property that in theory can be held by individuals (but in practice is held by collectives, whether families or corporations) is precisely a movement from the Piscean to the Aquarian. To be sure, I believe that Native Americans do have much to offer. But, on this one point, I prefer the Western (more specifically: English Common Law) approach.

      Natives have asked “how can you own the earth.” Perplexed, many of us suddenly think that the idea sounds stupid. But, that just indicates we do not understand how the system, at least in theory, works. Sadly, we have been lazy and not done the work to understand the basics of our own system. The ownership of property is considered ownership of a “bundle of rights” (often metaphorically imagined to be similar to a bundle of sticks). This bundle of rights at least potentially paves the way for concepts such as privacy that can be impossible to implement in a Piscean unstructured collective ownership.

      Remember, Pisces tends to be “ANTI-privacy,” the “Great Revealer.” Pisces is ALL about that dream where you find yourself naked in the middle of a room full of people. (I am not saying that Pisces is “bad”; this is just how it is. Pisces reveals, and it typically reveals EVERYthing.)

      The LOWER form of Aquarius is collective, too. The “Water Bearer” is an old name for a server, or (if you prefer) waiter or waitress. Quite literally, a “water bearer” is someone who brings the pitcher of water to your table and refills your cup. And, in this sense, the Water Bearer provides service to those who are in audience to the King (Leo). A better metaphor is the dinner theatre. The audience is symbolically represented by the water bearer(s) who serve(s) them. The “King” is an actor, a lone actor in a hot spotlight, on stage. Really, one cannot exist without the other. (No actor = no reason to be at the show; no audience = no reason for the actor to perform.)

      The two, Leo and Aquarius, metaphorically balance each other as “opposites.” In reality, they are the two essential components to the same reality. The HIGHER form of Aquarius is symbolized by lightening bolts, which in turn symbolize the “stroke of genius.” The Theory of Relativity was not originated by a committee or collective. It was ONE person, Einstein, who had the “stroke of genius” while watching the relative motion of trains. THAT (which is individual) is the HIGHER form of Aquarius. Said differently, it is about a shift in consciousness that begins at the INDIVIDUAL level.

      To foster the higher form, we must foster the rights of individuals over collectives. (Collectives, really, need no help.)

      Please also refer to which contains the following:

      “Property is a general term for rules governing access to and control of land and other material resources. Because these rules are disputed, both in regard to their general shape and in regard to their particular application, there are interesting philosophical issues about the justification of property. Modern philosophical discussions focus mostly on the issue of the justification of private property rights (as opposed to common or collective property). ‘Private property’ refers to a kind of system that allocates particular objects like pieces of land to particular individuals to use and manage as they please, to the exclusion of others (even others who have a greater need for the resources) and to the exclusion also of any detailed control by society. Though these exclusions make the idea of private property seem problematic, philosophers have often argued that it is necessary for the ethical development of the individual, or for the creation of a social environment in which people can prosper as free and responsible agents.”

      THAT brings us to the core issue represented by the astrological configurations of the 2012 Winter Solstice: not the OWNERSHIP of real property but HOW the financial institutions work (or do not work). In particular, it is related to how financial institutions control capital, and how they abuse that with huge bonuses to themselves (from the bailout money) while foreclosing on people the bailout money was intended to help. Said differently, the CONDUCT of the financial institutions is in issue. That is really the KEY QUESTION in the 2012 alignment. (That, and our global consciousness, or lack thereof, regarding this and similar issues.)

      Most people seem to miss the obvious. For example, we were “flying high” while Pluto was in Sadge. But, Pluto’s movement into Capricorn was the clarion call that financial markets were going to contract in a BIG way; we got the Crash of 2008 from it. (How could ANYbody with astrological knowledge miss this? It is sort of like people focusing on all those small boats around them and failing to recognize that the QEIII is about to capsize them.)

      And, what nobody is will recognize is that Pluto stays in a sign about TWENTY years. A quick fix will NOT work here. We will have twenty years to scrap the toxic debt and become, both individually and collectively, financially responsible. We will have 20 years to change our perspectives on money and finance.

      We do have some other remnants of the Piscean to resolve. For example, some people think Winters Solstice 2012 will be accompanied by weird events similar to the rapture (maybe people flying through the air with wings or something similarly absurd). That’s Piscean. That’s a belief that is totally disconnected from reality. What will happen is something more Aquarian, and that will be a shift in consciousness. After all, is that not one of the strengths of Aquarius: producing a shift in consciousness?

      Again, I think it is staring us in the face for anyone with “eyes to see” (yep, I got that metaphor from some Native Americans I know).


  9. Illuminat

    Iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia Regna.

    Born November 18, 1983


    • You are persistent, so I will let through ONE of your several comments. At some point I MIGHT do a few individual charts. But, please write your request in English. Latin is not the lingua franca any more. It is English, arguably American English. (I prefer “Southern,” but am willing to tolerate the other variants.) And, if I do an individual chart, then I need place of birth and time of birth as well.


      • I am truly sorry, but I was not asking for any readings 😛

        Temet Nosce.

        Novus Ordo Sæclorum
        Saturnia Regna (ιηςους)

        Post Scriptum
        Your response made me smie 🙂 I wouldn’t have posted if the topic was not related to me.

        BoR: 12:1-18


      • I think the Latin is probably confusing to most readers. Furthermore, you are posting fragments of Latin rather than sentences. The Romans had sentences, as we find in English.

        Yes, your Saturn return is happening, and if you are 11-18-1983 then your Saturn return is beginning. However, you will not fully experience the process until 2013 (per your data). Saturn will touch its home (in your personal chart) a few days AFTER the 2012 Solstice, and it will not fully express until it retrogrades over the point in 2013. (I am assuming this will happen for you, though it does not happen for everyone.)

        Saturn returns are typically a two year process for most people. As important as Saturn itself is, you will need to observe the interactions of other planets with your chart. This especially means the Moon, which is typically the precipitator of events.

        Worthy of note: one day of the Moon’s 28 day cycle equals a year of Saturn’s 28 year cycle. And, one last thing, Saturn’s 7 year turn of one quarter wheel is roughly the same as a single house of Uranus. (Before Uranus was discovered, Saturn ruled things Uranian.)


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    • Depending on your age, you may have seen the profound revolution that has happened so far. In the 1960’s (and before), and even into the 1970’s, the laptop computers, tablets, and smartphones of today were science fiction.

      Let’s say that someone from then had been magically transported into today for a few weeks and then back to, say, 1966 when the original Star Trek was being aired. They come home talking about laptops, smartphones, and tablets. Everybody thinks they are crazy, but an electrical engineer asks how all this can be. They explain that computers (not humans) draw circuit boards with transitors too small for humans to see with the naked eye.

      Furthermore, these same machines talk at 900 MHz (and that was quite impossible in 1966 when the highest viable frequency for radio was about 150 MHz). They talk to towers that talk to satellites that transmit terabytes (or more) of data. Back then 110 bits per second (called “buad”) was the standard. That’s 110 bits per second as opposed to, say, 5,000,000 bits per second (Megabits) or 5,000,000,000 (Gigabits) or 5,000,000,000,000 (Terabits).

      Carbon fiber bicycles, hybrid cars with HUGE batteries, LCD & Plasma televisions with infrared remotes, “Bluetooth,” and (ESPECIALLY) the internet would be equally insane. Diesel cars were unknown except the Mercedes Diesel of the 1970’s and the VW Rabbit Diesel of 1979. (They are still not in widespread adoption, but biofuel might change that.) The engineer would have difficulty explaining just how crazy all this science fiction was, but the judge would no doubt sign the commitment papers (as was done for Semmelweiss).

      And, the change prior to the 1960’s has been described as equally dramatic by the generation that lived through World War II. They remembered the birth of the auto industry, the end of horse & buggy, and the birth of both radio and television.

      But, still many in the “New Age” community hold to a Piscean vision of the future where some “rapture” will occur and the worthy (which always means themselves) will fly away with wings. Those who are held hostage by those notions do not realize that the New Age, the Aquarian Age, has been happening all around us. Do recall that Aquarius rules science & technology (and especially electronics & computers).

      These profound changes are far from over. Indeed, by 2020 we will face technologies that are as unforeseeable now as the tablet and smartphone were in 1992. (For fun, watch a few episodes of the X-Files from the early 1990’s. Note the size of the cell phones and the absence of smart phones.) Read a few discussion boards from, say, 2006 when tablets were, essentially, vaporware.

      In fact, the iPad was released in April, 2010. That was about 18 months AFTER this article was written. If you can even remember the paradigm before that, the few tablets produced had been both design & marketing disasters with notoriously poor usability. Few people thought they would be viable any time soon. (Check the discussion boards in 2008 about tablets.)

      Now, we live as if they have been here all along, and those born in 2000, today’s 12 year olds, will dismiss anyone who contests that idea by the time that 2020 gets here. “It’s always been that way.” That will be the battle cry, and anyone with perspective beyond that will have their intelligence and integrity questioned.

      Isn’t that how today’s 20 year olds, the texting generation, talk about text and smartphones? You are a fossil (and your intelligence is questioned) if you use a clamshell, the phones far advanced from those in those X-Files episodes of just two decades ago.

      We will soon see another similar revolution. Ever tried a “touch screen” computer (other than a tablet) in the past few years? They are disasters, just like the old tablets. But, Windows 8 will force hardware manufacturers to adjust, starting later this year. In a few years, they will be in widespread adoption with some holdouts using Windows 7. A tiny few will still use XP. (Some, no doubt, are still using Windows 98.) And, not too many years after that, when touch screen computers (laptops and any remaining desktops) are spoken of, we will hear that “it has always been that way.”

      But, still, we have people waiting for us to grow wings before they are willing to say that a vast shift in consciousness has occurred….

      No doubt they will be in some rain forest on December 21st. And, after nothing visible happens, they will come home and say what a “great trip it was.”


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